GREEN BAY, Wis. — Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers has proposed running special Amtrak trains to Green Bay during next year’s NFL Draft. In the last few years, the draft announcements have become big business, drawing thousands of people to host cities. The 90th version of the NFL Draft will be held in Green Bay, home of the NFL’s Green Bay Packers, April 24–26, 2025
Evers hinted at the possibility of using trains to move people to Green Bay for the draft, telling NBC26: “I know our Department of Transportation is meeting with Amtrak and others, so it’s our hope that that is absolutely going to happen.” He added that he hopes passenger train service to Green Bay can be made permanent.
The last passenger service to Green Bay, operated by the Chicago & North Western, ended on April 30, 1971, the eve of Amtrak. Today, the only viable rail route to the city from Chicago and Milwaukee is a combination of former Soo Line/C&NW lines from a connection with CPKC at Duplainville, Wis., through Fond du Lac to Green Bay owned by Canadian National. Service to Green Bay from Milwaukee or Chicago has long been discussed but has never gained any traction.
FWIW a comment or two,,,too bad the CNW line between Milw and Fondy was severed. Also back when the Soo ran passengers into Milw and interchanged with the Road, D’plainville had NE and SE quadrants.
CURTIS —- Good post – a short post but it does bring up UPRR’s heritage of CNW. For a lesson in the graveyard of branch line railroading, look at what little is left of railroading on the north side of Milwaukee and the cities to the north.
In days of yore, CNW had two viable passenger routes Milwaukee to Green Bay (and beyond), one route via Fondy – Oshkosh and one via Sheboygan – Manitowoc. MILW also had a viable passenger route Milwaukee to Green Bay. What’s left of these? None of the above.
FWIW WisDOT did not sever the UPRR, ex-CNW, track in Glendale with the widening of IH 43, as had once been proposed. WisDOT did build a new bridge. (There may have been a temporary interruption while the new bridge over IH 43 was being constructed — I can’t speak to that one way or the other.) So there’s some hope for railroading north of Milwaukee.
Railfans from around America may think of CNW as a decrepit prairie granger road. At least in the Chicago – Milwaukee area, CNW was engineered to very high standards. If I had room in my heart for another fallen flag to love (after NYCRR, NYNH&H, CBQ, ATSF), CNW would be a good candidate.
Here’s the bottom line. (If you guys can stand one more post from me). The NFL draft in Green Bay will be a ONE TIME event. Not even an annual event, like the EAA Fly-In at Oshkosh which is repeated every year. What possesses anyone to pursue train service for a one-time event, when there are countless unserved markets all across America. People go to of Nashville, Phoenix, Columbus, Las Vegas, every day, every year. No trains. Train service in other cities, Detroit, MSP, Denver, etc. etc. is very limited.
What’s so special about Green Bay for a couple of days, never to be repeated? Yes, the recent NFL draft in Detroit was a great success (in a great city), so Evers jumps on the bandwagon. How will that get us better passenger train service the day after NFL foamers return home from Green Bay?
FWIW for a time years ago during EAA a special private cars move was parked at Kiel, 20 or so miles across the lake from Oshkosh. Probably a WSOR move.
The very last sentence in this article (“Service to Green Bay from Milwaukee or Chicago has long been discussed but has never gained any traction.”) pretty much says it all. Why on earth would the CN being willing to negotiate the various capital improvements (track capacity, new jct. connections, passenger stations/platforms, etc.) for a “one-off” event (though with perhaps large crowds that COULD BE efficiently served by passenger rail, IF everything were in place for this type of operation)(Given that passenger rail infrastructure no longer exists on the MILW/GB corridor and hasn’t been there for more than 50-years, clearly this isn’t the Optimal scenario for a “one-time” passenger train for a big event).
I don’t live in Wisconsin and am not familiar with their governor, but per Mr. Krug and Mr. Landey’s above comments, this guy sounds utterly clueless and delusional, at least with respect to transportation policy.
The idea of a “charter” passenger train to serve an occasional event on a non-Amtrak route is not without precedent, especially on this line. Years ago, under the Wisconsin Central Ltd. (WCL), some charter trains were operated between Milwaukee and Oshkosh for the EAA annual air show, a really big event. I saw one of these return through the Theresa area the evening that year’s convention closed. I think it was at least 10 cars long (single-level equipment).
If I recall right, Amtrak actually operated the train after working out agreements with WCL. I don’t recall who actually sponsored and financed the train. This was around 1999 or so. WCL was more amenable to Amtrak and passenger trains than CN. If such a train ran again, it might require a non-Amtrak operator (such as Herzog or Keolis) to get CN to go along with it. I don’t recall any special infrastructure work done to allow the train to run.
The train operated to the east edge of the airport air show grounds using the dead-end spur that was once the SOO main through Oshkosh. This allowed them to clear the main line and load and unload people away from mainline freight activity.
The train evidently used the now-gone (and then-new) connection at Duplainville. The WSOR between Slinger and Grand Avenue was in terrible shape back then (much 10 MPH track) The WSOR today is in great shape with welded rail and most crossings gated. I believe the freight speed limit is 40 MPH.
Anyone who can offer additional info or clarifications please do so. Thanks.
“Evers hinted at the possibility of using trains to move people to Green Bay for the draft, telling NBC26: “I know our Department of Transportation is meeting with Amtrak and others, so it’s our hope that that is absolutely going to happen.” He added that he hopes passenger train service to Green Bay can be made permanent.”
Gee, doesn’t anyone read the story. Keywords “hinted” and “possibility” along with “hope” and “hopes”. Considering that the NFL Draft this year brought about $164 Million to the hosts, Evers is not out of line looking out for the State as a whole and especially Green Bay. If you watched the Draft you saw the huge crowds daily that were in attendance and the road system North of Milwaukee could be very well jammed where moving some, not all, fans would make sense. Right now it may just be a pipe dream and go no where yet sitting on this site whining about redoing a wye or Tony’s political prowess will go nowhere. If it comes about good for big dreams, if it doesn’t then sit in traffic or watch on TV throwing an old Cosell brick at the screen.
Amtrak isn’t going to engage in month of negotiations with CNR, months of negotiations with WisDOT for funding, running test trains, millions in track, signal and platfrm construction, for a special event.
As for permanent scheduled service to Fondy, Oshkosh, Neenah, Appleton and Green Bay, that could be a good thing, but it isn’t going to happen between now and Spring of 2025. Rock bottom minimum (if the Wisconsin State Semate and Wisconsin State Assembly could be brought on board), all that could take several years to get going. Not the spring of 2025.
Not only is Kalmbach is Waukesha, but also WisDOT’s largest regional office. Both of these a few miles from Duplainville.
If Wisconsin state government actually were talking to Amtrak (I doubt it) they’d know that this one-time events train ain’t going to run. Amtrak might (or might not) run a special on an existing route, but you can be 100% sure they ain’t going to run a special on a NEW route without a contract for regular operation.
I think Evers is throwing garbage against the ceiling to see what sticks. (See Curtis Larson post.) Wisconsin can’t come up with a viable plan for a Madison train in all these decades, so Evers floats the Green Bay proposal. What Evers will find out (as has been noted in comments below) is that CPKC might be reasonably cooperative (Madison) but CNR (Green Bay) probably isn’t the least bit interested.
Pipe dreams on rails. Won’t happen–but good discussion of everything. Now get the FRA to allow one-time psgr moves at 5mph or less so we can get some RARE mileage-collecting! Waumbek Jct. to Groveton, anyone?
I suspect this to be a “stalking horse” for PR purposes alone. As has been noted, refreshingly on point, the obstacles are great.
Goof Tony doesn’t have a clue. IMO, this pipe dream just isn’t happening. Hope is not a strategy to get anything done. CN wouldn’t want to fool with this given current/future capacity issues. CP wouldn’t want to monkey with the re-installation of the connection track for a one shot deal. I think the WSOR track is OK for passenger traffic out of North Milw, but no idea what kind of shape its in between there and Grand Ave. IMO, no passenger trains for GB in our lifetime. You could drive to Milw from GB faster than going by train.
The connecting track at Duplainville is gone. The only remaining possible route is to use WSOR Grand Avenue to Slinger, then CN to Green Bay. This route is intact and actually operable today, but work would be needed for passenger trains.
I think Congress needs to draft a bill at some point that allows freight railroads to receive money to increase capacity and improve infrastructure, and in return, Amtrak is allowed access.
There has already been some discussion about extending Hiawatha service to Green Bay. CN could win by having the connection rebuilt west of Milwaukee and adding additional capacity between Milwaukee and Glenview.
I don’t comment often, but I also experience getting bounced at least once before I can complete my thought and submit. So I compose my comment in another application and copy/paste into the comment box as an unfortunate but necessary workaround (as I have done with this reply). I also have to login much more frequently to the website.
Ths crappy website has TWICE bounced me out when on the verge of “SUBMIT”. So I’ll try a THIRD time. This week we saw (in the same state) the success of a second frequency MSP to MKE. That’s what we need to do (nationwide), not spend God knows how much for a one-time event on a route not currentl served.
The article mentions the connection at Duplainville. There is no connection. The NE quadrant wye was lifted years ago. Call it $2 Million to restore it. A wye track, a switch at each end, and of course PTC signalization. Maybe justifiable for schedule passenger service but absurd for a one-time event.
Event traffic is by its nature one-way. Meaning either layover at Green Bay, or deadheads back and ofrth to Milwaukee. And in this age of ADA and increased safety concerns, the need for standard platforms that probably don’t now exist at Green Bay and intermediate stops: Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, Neenah, and Appleton.
Football has thrived in Green Bay in the absence of passenger trains. Why would the one-time NFL draft event be any different?
Great points, Charles.
Apparently the writer has no local knowledge of trains around southeast Wisconsin – odd since Trains is based in Waukesha, WI, only a few minutes from Duplainville. How could the writer (and the editor) not know about the missing connection at DuPlainville?
Our illustrious governor once again showcases his (lack of) knowledge of rail service in Wisconsin and his mastery of English: “…so it’s our hope that that is absolutely going to happen.” Hoping for absolutely? Huh?
Could run on the CN from Chicago to/from Green Bay, bypassing Milwaukee. Good luck getting the CN to allow access. I would try to ride it for the mileage. Can watch the draft on TV.
It is still possible without having to put the connection at Duplainville back in but that would involve a major rehab of the WSOR between Grand Avenue in Milwaukee and Rugby Junction so which would cost less of the two evils? And even then I agree with Gerald along the line of CN basically saying get lost.