In March, the FRA announced it wanted public input about automated train technology.
“FRA is interested in hearing from industry stakeholders, the public, local and State governments, and any other interested parties on the extent to which they believe railroad operations can (and should) be automated, and the potential benefits, costs, risks, and challenges to achieving such automation,” the agency announced on March 22.
As of the week of April 23, the regulator has received more than 600 comments. The public has until May 6 to share their thoughts on the matter via regulations.gov or by mail.
A review of the comments submitted so far show that railroaders are against having any fewer than a two-person crew aboard every train. One BNSF Railway conductor wrote that it is critical to have a crew member on site in emergency situations, such as a derailment or hazardous materials spill. The man also raised concerns about an autonomous system getting hacked.
“Our electrical grids, elections, local governments have all been compromised by hackers,” the man wrote. “It is not unreasonable to believe that they would try to take control of a train.”
Another commenter accused the railroad industry of being more interested in profits than safety.
“Autonomous trains are a huge threat to public safety and will have catastrophic results. The only reason for this technology is to result in even larger profits for the railroad companies and stakeholders,” the person wrote.
A Joseph City, Ariz., resident also raised concerns about the loss of jobs due to automated trains.
“Autonomous trains would be devastating to our region where so much of our economy is dependent upon railroad jobs. The region of northeastern Arizona is already struggling economically and such action would likely force many, many families from their homes to find work elsewhere,” the commenter wrote.
Once considered the stuff of science fantasy, autonomous freight trains have become a reality. In 2017, mining company Rio Tinto operated a driverless train on a 60-mile stretch of tracks in western Australia. The company hopes to expand its driverless operations this year.
The address to mail comments regarding railroading automation is: U.S. Department of Transportation, Docket Operations, M-30, West Building Ground Floor, Room W12-140, 1200 New Jersey Avenue SE, Washington, DC 20590. Docket No. FRA-2018-0027.
It is not a question of “IF” a computer/radio controlled train can be hacked,, it is a question of “WHEN” . It can and WILL be done. We cannot bury our heads in the sand. Even our governments cannot prevent their systems from being hacked. One of the railyards I worked during my career had a brief interlude with radio control. It was suspended after a short period of time. Scuttlebutt has it that a couple of yard moves were almost shoved onto the 70mph main line. Railroad rumors, such as they are, are to be held suspicious, however in this case, the carrier suspended it of their own volition. That speaks louder than words, or rumors.
The Washington Metro system is a fine example of driverless trains. I rode it for years and computers controlled everything but opening and closing doors. A human was up front but the computer controlled it so they and a mid train human only opened and closed the doors. Then they had to have a driver reposition trains at stations because the track side sensors started messing up with cars not at the platform. Go forward 20 years and there was deadly crashes caused by failing sensors. Trains in yards crashed because the sensors did not account for snow on the tracks. Now the human in front had to run the trains more often. A classic example of computers failing is my neighbor had a 55 inch flat screen that , after 5 years would only show a start up prompt. I fixed it by putting the main motherboard in a 385 degree oven for ten minutes. Solder melts at 360 degrees. All I really did was wave solder the board to fix cold cold joints. Computers are more prone to failures the longer you use them. Much of the driverless systems use GPS and track sensors to do their calculating.
I am in favor of the safest and most efficient solution – in that order.
Most railroad accidents are caused by human error. Will computers resolve most of those – probably. Same as most car and truck accidents – human error. I truly believe that, once properly integrated, we will be much safer with computers driving our vehicles.
Is driverless more efficient? I presume so, but I don’t know.
To those that are concerned about the lost jobs – a valid concern – but I don’t think you should put a societal issue on the railroads. A societal issue needs to be paid by society.
To those that think its a grab for more profits by the railroads – yes you are probably right – but I would bet that most of the efficiency would result in lower transportation costs. Remember, they have to compete with the driverless trucks.
I think that more efficient railroads would translate to lower costs for freight, which would translate to a boost in the economy, which means more jobs in other industries. As in take back industrial jobs from the Chinese.
Public comment events are political theater. The decision has already been made. Your input will not change it.
@Robert Peterson – I clean up the messes that the robots make.
Jerry Conaway – thanks for the positive reinforcement and support of the American dream, jobs and your local Trainmen… and just what is it that YOU do for a living? Let me guess, knock others down so as to build yourself up!
Each time I drive through the traffic bizarritude of Waukesha, Wisconsin, the Midwest’s traffic engineering answer to downtown Boston, I think how far a driverless car would get. Two hundred feet at best. Probably less than that.
I guess I can comment here even though the title was against driverless trains. Accidents are exactly what they’re named, accidents. People die in traffic accidents everyday. A driverless car will give full attention to its job, not texting. Watch your fellow drivers; see how many are texting or on the phone, just begging for an accident. As for gridlock, automated cars will find alternate routes. Someone running in front of a moving vehicle will get hit, driven or driverless. Yes, I’m in favor of driverless vehicles. I think them safer, but society will be upended with all the people out of work. Who will be able to pay for anything but the food that trains and trucks carry?
JF TURCOTTE: Not true. About a month ago the DOT put out a similar request relative to driverless trucks. I submitted negative comments.
CARL WELCH: ” 2) Public comment is meaningless. The public has repeatedly shown that they are clueless about any topics other than sports and entertainment.” Another reason railroads should be afraid of autonomous trains. Every lawsuit based on death or damage caused by a driverless train will almost surely be settled in favor of the complainant.
……………for more waste of WORDS and TIME ~ READ ON !
SHAKESPERE said …what fools us mortals be……………
An amount of machinery which would keep several men and women employed in the controlled environment of a factory, can go out into the uncontrolled environment of a railroad with no one aboard. Yup.
In a world with driverless trucks and two-man crews, the best railroads can hope to do is survive. If however, anyone is interested in seeing railroads (a far more sustainable and efficient transportation system) thrive and take back market share from trucking, they’re going to have to automate.
In my perfect world, there’d be a team track in every town, and every train would be pulled by a steam locomotive with a three man crew. But that’s never going to happen. The loss of train crew jobs is regrettable, but if automation does’t play some role there won’t be ANY railroad jobs in the near future.
…………..just a waste of words and time……..whatever will be will be
That is right Trainmen – keep on grousing for more pay, more benefits, better working hours. Keep threatening to strike. Your days in the sun are almost over, just like the steam locomotive. Welcome our robot overlords with open arms!
Sure, why not? Driverless cars and trucks, unmanned trains, how about pilotless airplanes. Amazon can deliver all of our food and clothing, and every thing else we may need or want. And we can sit in front of our computers playing games and be coming VEGETABLES. Wow, what a future. Hooray for AI. WHAT A JOKE.
And while we’re at it, let’s be sure to speak out against driverless cars and trucks. Though for some drivers I’ve encountered, automating driving for them in accordance with governing speed limits and traffic laws might be an improvement.
What? 1) Unions have an axe to grind. They don’t want to lose their jobs. 2) Public comment is meaningless. The public has repeatedly shown that they are clueless about any topics other than sports and entertainment. Also, what exactly do 600 comments from a population of 320 million mean? In the end, the FRA will do whatever they feel like. They are accountable to no one.
Yet, nobody speaks out against driverless trucks. Talk about hypocrisy.
Question; How would these same people feel about sharing the road with autonomous trucks? Conceivably, these very people doing the complaining could be driving right next to a driverless truck in the next lane. It seems to me that autonomous trains would be much less of a hazard than autonomous trucks mingling with other vehicles on the highway.
Automated trains? Maybe…only if there are no pedestrian or street crossing along the way like the Rio Tinto trains. Otheriwse , you might as well lay Russian Roulette becuase one time there will be a bullet in the chamber!
One crash that kills a family and that will be it for driverless trucks or trains. Like us, with flying cars, my kids will one day ask weren’t we supposed to have driverless cars by now?
No driverless trains.
No driverless cars.
No driverless trucks.
I work with electronic devices. As good as they are, electronics can FAIL. I just got through repairing a machine that’s driven me mad for almost two weeks. At least no-one was going to get hurt or die if it didn’t work.
If it’s big, and it moves, I want a warm body in the cab. Period.
The public is against autonomous trains but are okay with driverless cars and trucks that could kill them on their way to work everyday? Just thinking how dumb this is. A train is not going to be able to stop hitting a car on the tracks or a trespasser in the ROW no matter who or what is driving it.
I am not advocating for it because lots of good blue-collar jobs are at stake here, but I would think a train would be the easiest and safest thing to automate.
@GEORGE BENSON – Hate to say it, but driverless trucks may be an improvement on those with human drivers. Any sane implementation would include a 360 view for the computer that controls it, meaning an end to accidents where a truck crushes traffic to the right of it when changing lanes.
I don’t have any objection to driverless anythings as long as proper testing is done and ultimately the driverless vehicles average an accident rate and a death rate far below that of a human controlled vehicle. I think that’s an achievable goal. Humans are flawed, even railroad engineers are. Computers will never be perfect, but it’s possible to imagine them achieving better results than humans in the same situation, just as we currently trust them to with everything from accounting to typesetting.
I’m a technophobic fuddy-duddy suspicious of driverless anything; but at least railroads would seem to be better suited to fully-automated operation than trucks.
Of course, in 1940 I would probably have had similar reservations about automatic elevators.