Union Pacific Big Boy No. 4014 passes through Deseret, Utah, on Friday. The Big Boy’s trip through southern Utah on Saturday apparently figured in a six-car accident that injured two people.
TRAINS: Jim Wrinn
BERYL, Utah — Six vehicles were involved in an accident apparently sparked by efforts to see Union Pacific Big Boy No. 4014 as it passed through this small town near St. George, Utah, on Saturday.
The cars collided on a narrow frontage road near the railroad tracks, the St. George News website reports. One victim was airlifted to a nearby hospital while another was transported by ground ambulance for treatment of non-life-threatening injuries, Iron County Sheriff’s Deputy Jon Bettridge told the news site.
Bettridge said Saturday law enforcement officials were still trying to figure out “what happened and exactly how it happened.”
The Big Boy arrived in Las Vegas on Sunday and will be on display there today.
Put the phone down and DRIVE!
@John Winter I guess is should cover myself in bubble wrap, eat only cheerios and sit on the couch forever then. Wouldn’t want to take any risks at all! Heck, cars are a leading cause of injury and death in America – better not get in one at all!
As with everything safety, it is all about controlling risk. Having somebody drive you down a deserted highway while travelling at the same speed a a train is hardly risky. Maybe some people can’t handle it, but my father and I have proven over hundreds of miles that it can be done safely and without impacts to other motorists.
You are probably way more distracted and incapable of driving safely eating a granola bar than when setting the pace of your vehicle’s forward velocity to match that of the train next to you.
See, I told you I was fuzzy. Reverse “defendant” and “plaintiff,” please.
Charles – Without spending a day doing legal research and relying solely on my slowly ossifying memory, I recollect (that word comes from “Ode To Billy Joe”) that there are some states that will require a defendant to pay a plaintiff’s legal fees, including attorney fees, if a lawsuit is deemed “frivolous.” Also recollect that the Brits have something like that.
Anna, Steve Sweeney is an employess of Kalmbach, He is the digital editor for Trains magazine.
Mister Landey:
“Rules and Regulations” (appropriately enough).
As for tort reform, I must stand mute. But I can refer you to any number of Law Review articles on the subject, Or, you should be able to find Legal News (a trade rag) if you look hard enough. It is frequently discussed there.
The above comments are generic in nature and do not form the basis for an attorney/client relationship. They do not constitute legal advice. I am not your attorney. Find your own damn hippie degenerate.
ANNA – What has to happen in tort cases is for the courts to crack down on frivolous lawsuits. Without the consistent support of the courts, corporations are defenseless in deep-pocket cases and are forced to settle.
ANNA – Which Donovan song ????? I think I have a complete collection of Donovan, for better or for worse. Is that the song that also says “For every boy there is a girl…” or something like that.
PS Nobody ever answered BNSF Foamer’s question, has any rock singer ever had a photograph in TRAINS-MAG other than Alan Jardine?
Mister Knight:
Some people get butt-hurt over the strangest of things. To quote Donovan Leitch, “It takes all kinds to make the world go ’round.”. Besides, I have no idea who Mister Sweeney is, when he is up and dressed.
But, he still has the right to his opinion, and he has the right to air it. Do not take that away from him. But we also have the right to ignore him.
Since I am here, and regarding my suggestion for a tort. I do seriously hope nothing like this happens, but I can easily see it happening – deep pocket doctrine and all of that, and UP ponying up in a confidential settlement while not admitting liability. For large corporations simply paying the cost of defence is frequently cheaper than fighting and possibly losing big.
I really wish large corporations would stand their ground in such cases. Simply paying cost of defence might make good business sense in the short run, but in the long run it encourages lawsuits with little or no merit, except for their nuisance value. Not only does this give the legal profession a bad name (about which I could give a fig) but it also clogs the courts and distorts the functioning of the judicial system, about which I care a great deal.
You don’t get rid of a blackmailer by paying him – you get rid of him by standing up to him and fighting.
This is not to say that large corporations should get a free pass, either. I have seriously not-nice comments to make about many large corporations, based on their behaviour. But a legal action should be something that has merit, not simply an attempt to throw as many people against the wall as possible in hopes of a payday.
The above comments are generic in nature and do not form the basis for an attorney/client relationship. They do not constitute legal advice. I am not your attorney. Are you reading this disclaimer looking for something interesting?
TOM – I think Steve Sweeny was referring to Anna’s use of the word “attorney”.
“Profanity?” Seriously?
Anna Harding: Please refrain from all profanities in the comments section of News Wire. This is a second, and final, reminder.
We all make choices when we drive. But I would not use Mr. Christmas advice as your defense in the event you have to defend yourself. I’m not to sure your insurance company would be to pleased either. Before you make such a decision you need to ask yourself, “is it worth it” if things turn sour?
Mr. Landry. You no doubt were sadden to read “notified by sheriff dept.” I was one of those making those notifications. I wouldn’t wish that job on anyone. Maybe if Mr. Christmas had to deliver such a message, he would think twice, even when he’s on that lonesome stretch of road.
Be safe!!!
Mister Caramellia and Mister Elliot:
While I thank you for your support, the fact remains that this forum is private property. The owner of this forum can toss any of us at any time, for any reason or none.
While it is true that I didn’t use any of the Seven Deadly Words (nine, if you know your Lenny Bruce), Mister Sweeney, who represents the ownership of this forum, has made his position clear. As a guest I have two choices: I can comply with his requirements, or I can leave. I simply wish he had identified himself properly at the outset of this incident.
First Amendment rights have nothing to do with it. There is no such thing as free speech here. That is the nature of a private forum such as this.
The above comments are generic in nature and do not form the basis for an attorney/client relationship. They do not constitute legal advice. I am not your attorney. Find your own bleeping lawyer.
@ Charley Landy,
“Sorry Alex. A designated driver helps but it’s not enough to make the practice safe.
For a safe highway, everyone needs to drive at the same speed (the highway speed, not the train speed) and drivers must ignore any temptation to form a platoon or to maneuver in any way (such as the temptation to stretch an amber traffic signal or turn unexpectedly). Incompatible with pacing a train.”
I do agree with you on needing to go the same speed and the issues with platooning. I am studying civil engineering, and do fully understand how much speed differential can play a role in increasing accidents.
That is why I said, only do it on essentially deserted roads. Pacing a UP freight on US 30 in W Nebraska, with the train doing 50 and you doing the same, isn’t going to be much of an issue. The road isn’t all that busy, and your speed differential is minor. On M35, pacing at only 40, isn’t much of an issue, as the road is always deserted. I’ve done the ~15 mile pace twice, and I think the most cars who have caught up and passed was like two or three each time. Similar numbers going the other way. M121 at 7am in the morning to pace Amtrak #371 – going 60 MPH themselves – is also not risky at all, since you’re doing the same speed as everybody else, on a four lane road, which is deserted. That’s one I’ve done with a mounted camera.
Which brings us back to chasing the Big Boy. That’s going to attract a crowd. So obviously, don’t pace the Big Boy unless somehow you find a deserted stretch of road and follow my other guidelines.
I’ve probably shot almost 100 miles of pacing in the last 5 years or so keeping in mind my guidelines. I’ve had nothing anywhere close to a close call of any form. It can be done safely. You just need the right conditions and right setup. Like anything, it can be very dangerous if you are stupid. So don’t be stupid.
Anna, I have always found your posts to be lucid, well-written and thought out and while I may not always agree I appreciate the thought you put into your comments. That being said your caveat of “get your own damn lawyer” always gives me a chuckle and brings some humor where it is definitely needed. As for those who have to see problems where there aren’t any, the he!! with ’em. They most likely don’t care for vanilla ice cream either. Not to mention your First Amendment rights. Take care and stay safe; you are one of the few bright spots who contributes to this forum.
Could somebody explain why MS. Harding’s post is so offensive? I seem to be missing something.
Mister Sweeney: As I commented below I recognize this forum is private property. I have been subjected to some rather rough abuse here and I will not listen to or take orders from just any random node. However you are an employee of Kalmbach (I found your name on the printed version masthead) and therefore have the authority to tell me what to do. I will respect that authority. Do have a good day.
The above comments are generic in nature and do not form the basis for an attorney/client relationship. They do not constitute legal advice. I am not your attorney. Find your own lawyer.
Speaking of traffic safety, we lost a great railfan (electric traction mainly), a volunteer train driver at East Troy Electric Railway, and a traffic safety professional I learned a lot from. A husband, a father, a Christian and a friend. I’ll just give his initials on this public forum, R.H.P. of Pewaukee Wisconsin. January 10, 1943 to October 3, 2019. Rest in the arms of your savior Jesus the Christ.
I agree with the poor judgement of pacing. Don’t be a hindrance to those who are traveling for reasons beyond your own. Go park somewhere and watch. When I was out in Utah for the 150th anniversary of the Golden Spike there was a multiple car wreck on I-84 due to pacing the Big Boy back to Cheyenne.
People can be crazy. When 3751 was going west to Parker almost twenty years at one point we were chased by three cars on a two lane road, one in the westbound lane, one next to him on the shoulder, and the third driving west on the eastbound shoulder. By some miracle there was no collision.
Sorry Alex. A designated driver helps but it’s not enough to make the practice safe.
For a safe highway, everyone needs to drive at the same speed (the highway speed, not the train speed) and drivers must ignore any temptation to form a platoon or to maneuver in any way (such as the temptation to stretch an amber traffic signal or turn unexpectedly). Incompatible with pacing a train.
A platoon pacing a train may be safe for the platoon members but unsafe for other users of the road.
I know the Big Boy is an amazing sight to see/chase, but COME ON PEOPLE!!! This is getting ridiculous! Distracted driving should not ever be involved with chasing steam trains, since there are so many other driver in close proximity to each other.
John Degges: Thank you for clarifying. Yes, I am a digital editor for Kalmbach. We’re trying to keep things as civil as possible here. Anna Harding: Eliminating gratuitous profanity helps keep things a bit simpler for moderators and editors. For further questions or concerns, you may contact me at the News Wire email address: NewsWire@trainsmag.com -Steve Sweeney
Anna – I think you omitted the qualifier “frivolous” from you assessment of requiring the losing side to pay the opposition’s expenses. Consistency is not the hobgoblin of small minds, but a foolish consistency is.
How to pace a train safely:
1. Don’t pick a busy road
2. The driver and the watcher/photographer/videographer are NOT the same person
3. No speeding can be involved (up to 5 mph over the posted limit is okay)
4. Pacing speed should not be significantly lower than the road is either signed for or higher than maintained for, in the case of rough side and frontage roads
I’ve got quite a bit of pacing footage on my YouTube channel, nearly all of it shot by me when I was not the driver. The only acceptable exception is when the camera is mounted to the windshield, not obstructing vision, and operated hands-free. That way you can pace with your eyes and attention on the road.
Pretty much all pacing has been on public highways with a speed limit of 55. Quite a bit on US 30 in WY and NE, Michigan 55 in the Upper Peninsula and Michigan 121 downstate. These roads are either not busy, or I shot it early in the morning ~7-8am on a weekend.
In any event, pacing was either at road speed or no more than 15 mph slower than posted speed. You’ve gotta use your hazards if you’re lower than posted speed, and the pacing should be discontinued if traffic begins to pile up behind you. This isn’t a problem if you are on a four-lane divided highway, and you stay in the right lane, as folks can just go around you. When we were pacing on US30 out in W Nebraska, the few cars who caught up could easily pass on the two-lane road, so no issues there, either.
As usual, each case should be evaluated in advance before it is begun and discontinued if it becomes apparent that it is becoming unsafe. Most of these accidents are due to negligence, and pushing the boundaries. Horror stories I’ve heard before are all from speeding and/or the driver attempting to hand-hold a camera.
We’ll see what the case was here. Knowing frontage roads out west, it’s quite possible people were going way too fast for conditions, and somebody either lost control, or wasn’t able to safely meet an oncoming vehicle, and then people following too close piled in. Just like pile-ups from distracted driving on the freeway at rush hour.
So yeah, I don’t think pacing is “evil” in and of itself. It can be done safely, but as with everything else involving a moving vehicle, you cannot be a moron about it.