In November, the Ulster County Legislature ordered 11.5-miles of former Ulster & Delaware Railroad along the reservoir removed. The adjacent property, owned by the New York City Department of Environmental Protection, fronts on the reservoir that supplies New York City’s drinking water. The city insisted that the corridor be used for a trail or the railroad but not both.
Ernie Hunt, president of the Catskill Mountain Railroad, which operates over the rail line, remains upbeat despite the recent setback. He tells local media he believes the railroad may someday return to the scenic overlook at the Glenford Dike, 1.1 miles beyond the current end of track. Right now, Hunt and his volunteers will focus on rebuilding and upgrading the 8.3 miles available from Kingston to Ulster, N.Y.
“The CMRR’s long-term goal is that we intend to rebuild the track to the Glenford Dike once we have renovated the track up to the reservoir easement area,” Hunt tells Trains News Wire.
Catskill Mountain has been embroiled in controversy with the county for several years. The group was evicted from its base in Kingston, and it lost its operating rights on the other end of the reservoir. During the last two or three years, the tourist operation has rebuilt several miles of track and has increased its ridership substantially with special events. In 2017, the railroad carried about 30,000 passengers.
The issue has been a hot one in recent years, featuring lawsuits and counter-suits by the county and the railroad, in addition to substantial support and condemnation of both sides by the public in newspapers and public meetings of the county legislature. The county bought the railroad from Conrail in 1976.
In November, the county signed a $943,000-contract with a salvage firm to remove rail, ties and other track materials. In addition, the contractor will remove 2,300 trees. The contractor will dispose of all materials and retain the proceeds of any sales. The trail is set to be complete by May 2019.
CLARIFICATION: The Catskill Mountain Railroad has yet to operate excursion services over the contested trackage. The railroad has used the tracks for storage and equipment moves. Jan. 17, 2018, 11:48 a.m. Central time.
Catskill Mountain Railroad did run a ‘non-revenue’ passenger train up to Glenford Dike back in 2016 to show it could be done. It was the first (and only) train to reach the Dike. Hopefully it won’t be the last. https://youtu.be/BoWM6PKhU4k
@ David Benton. No. When the eviction notice came, they (CMRR) came up and had them relocated. They were pushed back down to Kingston for awhile and now I am not sure where they went. While they were movable and the air brakes worked, they were all in bad cosmetic shape and exposed to the elements for many years. They wanted to use them for the planned tourism run to the Oshtokan Reservoir, but now it won’t be possible with the rail pull up.
We are having the same problem here in Indiana. The well-heeled residents of Fishers and Carmel Indiana just north of Indianapolis want the former NKP Indianapolis-Michigan City line removed so that a paved trail can take the place of The Fairtrain. The Indiana Transportation Museum in Noblesville used to run the Fairtrain over 38 miles of track with several loading/unloading stops along the way. Now that all seems to be moot because of political differences between groups and several developers that HATE TRAINS! All the got to do is ride The Napa Wine Train to see what can be done and how money can be made!
Did anyone ever investigate the titles to the property on which the ROW is. In the case of the PRR and ours, if the railroad use no longer existed, the ROW returned to the landowners. So in the case here, if the tracks were removed, there could be no trail either. It took 16 years in court for the holding company to finally admit defeat in court. And that was 42 years after the last train ran. We had had a similar rails to trails battle defeating the trails group because of that clause.
Thanks John, Didn’t notice the date. Were those cars restored?
@David Benton: That Google image is from 2012. If you traverse the CMRR YouTube channel or their website, you see the huge amount of cleanup and restoration they had finished past Hurley Road.
To everyone else….I am a fan of rails AND trails and ride them both. Everyone makes a valid point, but if the RR can’t make a go of it, or can’t earn enough to overcome its level of maintenance required, then it needs to be let go.
The tourism potential of the CMRR is well documented and if you actually ride through there, the ROW passes through some great opportunities. But opportunities like the one they had require more stakeholders and way more advocacy.
They had a small but vocal set of stakeholders, but not nearly as many local advocates. And ultimately, this was their undoing.
Take a look on google maps street view , where the Railroad crosses US-209.
well how about that theirs another trail for people to walk in the addirandacks just what they needed , NOT its the liberal goody to shoes that don,t even live their that want the railroad out , for god sakes keep you,re nose out of this area . The residence of the area are getting killed in high taxes hoping for business to open up shop to eas the tax burden and the state and the city of New York chase them away , idiots. The city of New York and the Dept of Enviormental Protection should pay what ever taxes were lost on with the railroad , they should subsedise money to the local residence . Last year my family went on the rails for trail carts that you peddle on the tracks for ten miles ,it was fantastic. You really think I would drive up to the addirandacks to walk on a trail ,you enviormentalist are out of you,re minds , I can do that at home , ( PUT THE RAILS BACK)
More interference from big government gone amok. Someday, New York may get a middle or right leaning govt. but don’t hold your breath. It isn’t usually until decades later that city, county or state governments finally realize how badly they screwed up. By then, it costs so damn much to fix that as far as tourist railroads go, they become a thing of the dead, distant past.
sorry George wasn,t paying attention to my spelling , I,m bad
Paul: Please for all of our brains apply your spell check if you have one. Thanks.
I guess I need to revisit one of my posts from long ago. Welcome to the new Dark Ages. Lets replace something useful with something worthless. As usual, the local fiefdom is lining its pockets at the expense of the local population.
Historic/excursion/scenic railroads don’t appear to have much sway in Albany. Indeed, it looks as if rail fans are 0 for 3. Sad.
The headline/title is somewhat misleading. It should read “Tracks formerly used by Catskill Mountain Railroad being removed”. See: http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-news/20180110/rails-pulled-up-at-ashokan-reservoir-to-make-room-for-trail
To Sam Prest: It is my understanding that the County took ownership of the rails as part of an agreement in lieu of back property taxes owed by Penn Central. I don’t have the exact dollar amount at hand, but pretty sure the County didn’t write any checks for the rail line.
To Gary: To clarify, there were no public excursion CMRR trains running on or near the area where tracks are being removed. Closest public train ride on the line is literally miles away.
Mr Landey: My apologies. I’d enjoy that! Same thing if you are ever down this way!
Time was up, the railroad had two decades to develop a business plan and they fail. It the will of the community vs a few well intentioned rail fans. It an extremely beautiful area. The existing trails are well used, I’m sure the new ones will be too.
I Wis all parties concerned on both sides of the tracks well.
Mr. Landey,
To address one of your questions, tourist trains bring in tourists from OUTSIDE the local area that contribute to the economy of the local business, recreational trails do no such thing as most people that use them are either a: from the local area, or b: ride the trail from another location and return to that location to spend their money, which is usually in some other place and not the place the trail runs through. Secondly, once the rails are removed there is almost no future for bringing in industry or ever having the potential of using said rails for economic growth.
JIM NORTON – Thank you for telling me about myself. Stop by any time for some coffee and to talk trains. Mrs. Landey and I live in Brookfield Township, Wisconsin, the home of Kalmbach Publishing.
Charlie Landie: You are a rude, elitist ass. Blow it out of your rude elitist ass.
CARL WELCH what is useful about a tourist train and what is not useful about a recreational trail. Please inform.
GARY The train was a tourist attraction, not a common carrier to get people from place to place. Like, drive your SUV 100 miles there and 100 miles back to write a train a few miles.
JIM NORTON writes, “Why does New York hate rail?” JIM NORTON why can’t you come up with something more original than the far-left and totally ignorant (and hateful) cliché that anyone who has a different viewpoint than you “hates”? Like all the times after Scott Walker took over as governor of Wisconsin in 2011, Scott Walker “hates” rail, Scott Walker hates Milwaukee, Scott Walker hates everything and everybody. Because Scott Walker killed his predecessor’s ridiculous proposal for an uneconomical 50-mph “high speed” train to Madison, Scott Walker “hates” rail. Never mind all the continuing state support Walker gave to the successful Hiawatha route, Scott Walker “hates” trains. JIM, people like you aren’t just boring and silly, people like you are themselves haters of the worst kind. JIM NORTON, next post, address the actual issue, if indeed you have the intellectual wherewithal.
Let’s bide our time, build up our strength, and support Ernie Hunt, President, Catskill Mountain Railroad in his upbeat outlook that “the railroad may someday return to the scenic overlook at the Glenford Dike.”
On the bright side, the contractor will clear 2,300 trees that the Catskill Mountain Railroad won’t have to!
Note the Trains cartography blooper. The D&H right of way never extended east of Lake Placid to reach the mainline. It ran from Lake Placid west to Saranac Lake, then north via Lyon Mountain, then east to Plattsburgh.
Why does New York hate rail?
Remove 2,300 trees. So much for protecting the environment and having a scenic trail. I bet less people will use the trail than rode the train. But hey, the government knows what is best for you.