NEW YORK — Two congressmen have announced plans for legislation that would force the federal government to produce a “doomsday” contingency plan in the event of a major failure of Amtrak’s aging tunnel under the Hudson River.
Reps. Peter King (R-N.Y.) and Josh Gottheimer (D-N.J.) announced their plans Monday at New York’s Penn Station. The Associated Press reports the legislation is sparked by frustration over slow progress in building a new tunnel to connect New York and New Jersey. The proposed $13 billion tunnel is part of the Gateway Project to upgrade the Northeast Corridor.
“This is being slow-walked by the [Department of Transportation],” King said. The two congressmen hope the legislation will bring more attention to the project, which has been stalled during the Trump administration. [See “Talks aside, action on Gateway tunnel still stalled,” Trains News Wire, Dec. 4, 2018.]
The two tubes of the existing tunnel, which opened in 1910, are used by roughly 200,000 passengers a day. The tubes were damaged by saltwater flooding during Hurricane Sandy, and could require extensive repairs within a decade. If one tube is shut down, it will reduce peak-hour service by 75 percent.
“Just give us a plan,” Gottheimer said. “… We think this will actually just keep ratcheting up the pressure to get it done.”
A lot of the grousing going on here appears to be political trashing of a couple of states.
The Lincoln & Holland tunnels are already at or over capacity and couldn’t handle the additional load. Ferries would require additional boats and facilities and can be somewhat problematic in stormy weather.
These tunnels are relics that need to be replaced or updated with new infrastructure for the future. I’m sure many of the nay-sayers would like to pay the actual cost for the roads & airports they use.
There is also the environmental cost of cars & buses to consider.
We, as citizens, seem to have given up the idea of the common good.
The problem is overbuilding and overpricing in the Greater New York City area. $1.8 BILLION for the Portal Bridge? The entire Penn Station project opening in 1910 was $110 MILLION. The rest of the nation feels NYC is being too greedy and way too much Palladium-plating (Palladium is more expensive than Platinum) going on for the contractors and unions. Yes, it is NYC’s Big Dig. Worst of it is one fears NYC would NOT protect any new tunnels from storm flooding; bad enough that NJ Transit wouldn’t pay overtime to move their new loco fleet on a Sunday night so they lost several hundred MILLION in new locos. That sort of thing. They can squeal all they want about preventing Climate Change but another Great Hurricane of 1821, which fortunately hit near low tide and NYC was small then, and you’re back to square one with flooded tunnels everywhere and NYC is out of business. Now, are there any contingency plans for car floats for Amtrak between Bay Ridge and Greenville with Diesel shuttles to Newark and Sunnyside? Harlem is too long a distance.
The bile, and lack of respect, in many comments is unflattering to the authors, and, frankly, to “Trains”. All the brains in NY are Upstate, NY is the bottom of the cesspool, good riddance to NY/NJ! This region throughout history, and to the present day, has contributed mightily to the country, its needs are not merely local, but integral to the nation.
Ten states pay more money into the Federal budget than they get back. New York is number one on that list, paying about $35 billion more into the Federal budget than it gets back, and New Jersey is number two on the list, at about $21 billion annually. Note that both those annual figures are vastly more than the cost of a replacement for the North River Tunnels.
I live in New Jersey and work in New York, so I get to pay taxes to both states. I’m happy to do it, knowing that some of the money will go to build roads I’ll never drive on, or fund schools I’ll never attend. But that road might allow a student to get to a school, get an education, and make a breakthrough discovery that radically improves the lives of millions. Or not. That’s how society works. We all contribute—some of us more than others—and we all benefit.
So, please, stop complaining about how you have to shoulder the burden of not getting as much money from New York and New Jersey as you expected.
The Mad Men days of people wearing suits attending mtgs and doing business is a thing of the past its now the Virtual Workplace people can be anywhere to do their work if something did cause closure of the tunnel it would only be an inconvenience to the casual traveler in the NE. To be fair the Feds should pay a portion of the cost but all the NEC states should contribute being as they got exempted from the from the PRRIA 750 mile requirement that other states have to ante up to get service.
Spin off upstate NY where most of the people with brains live and flush NYC & NJ down the same drain with California. They all seem to feel the rest of the country OWES them and should be required to pay for their toys.
These tunnels have direct and indirect impact on train and aviation passengers across the country. Based on my personal experience traveling all over the country…
Andrew Chandler, Don Oltmann’s three examples may indeed be enhanced by electronics and high-tech, but it still requires the human element to initiate the performance of these tasks. What do we do, tell everyone who lives in NJ to move into NYC?? Much easier said than done … If it was a question of needing to replace the Holland and/or Midtown Tunnels, or the George Washington Bridge, I’m sure there would be no debate whatsoever about cost of funding. But because it is RAIL, because it involves Amtrak and New Jersey Transit, that is the bugaboo.
Mr. Oltmann: Your three examples do not need a human presence. I can deposit checks by taking an image with my phone, you can write a book electronically even get it published by internet, and isn’t video production electronic to begin with? I wonder if any rider survey has been completed to reveal who is riding. I like Mr. McGuire’s suggestion the best. The people using a service must have a contribution in the matter. Then attitudes will change. this project is too big to leave it to politicians to decide. thank you
I think something of a compromise might work out. The feds put up a fixed amount of no more than half the estimated cost, NYC and NJ put up the rest and maybe fund their share or some of it by a surcharge on commuter tickets. The key will be keeping the project from turning into another Big Dig. That means taking on the unions even if it requires bringing workers in from outside the immediate area as well as abolishing all the “featherbedding” in projects of this size. Given NY & NJ history and the fact the Dems control both, I doubt they will want to take on the unions so then they are stuck with all the additional costs.
If you add a $5 surcharge to the tickets of those 200,000 people a day, they’ll have the $13B about 36 years. I personally don’t care to have my tax money go down the NY-NJ sewer. If they want it, they’ll need to make some serious tough decisions instead of catering to every bleeding social cause out there. People & businesses are already fleeing the high tax state. Soon there will be only a fraction of the amount of people commuting to NY. Problem solved.
Tell me, Mr. McGuire, why should I pay for highways I never use? WHy should I pay to maintain parks I never visit? Because I am an American citizen, that is why.
So, Robert, getting the nations bankers to work doesn’t effect people outside of NY and NJ? How about book publishers? Still no effect? TV production?
Losing those tunnels would put a hurt on the nations economy. We are all in this together.
These tunnels mostly benefit New York and New Jersey. It should be paid for mostly by those two states. Simply add a surcharge to all tickets sold for trains that use these tunnels including Amtrak passengers and at 200,000 passengers a day they should have the money in a few years. Why should everybody else pay for a tunnel they’ll never use or derive any benefit from. There are facility fees for going to the theater, baggage charges for checking luggage, tolls on highways, environmental disposal fees, etc.. Why do rail passengers escape all of this? If you use it you pay for it.
Well, maybe these same Democrats should work with the Republicans to come up with a financing plan. Instead of going to war against their own country as they now do.
More commuter live in the Long Island and Metro North territories than in New Jersey. Also, New Jersey has Path which carries more people in their 4 tunnels than Amtrak’s 2 tunnels. I think the buses over the GW and through the Lincoln and Holland also carry more commuters than Amtrak’s tunnels. There are also ferries. In other words there are alternatives. The world won’t stop if something happens to the tunnels.
After all is “said and done”, there is a high probably that the tunnels, will have to be put OOS before new ones are built.
It will be a major”doomsday” for the whole country, not just NJ/NY.
Lay the most recent delays (6yr’s or so) in funding and inaction, at the feet of Sen. Chuck Schumer and former NJ govenor Chris Christie.
I think they should use the same doomsday plan they’ve been using for the last 60 years. If the tunnels fail, knockdown enough of the city to support the needed freeways lanes to move the suburbanites into the city.
Let the NIMBY’s complain, but this country didn’t get GREAT by worrying about what gets destroyed in the name of progress.
Charles- “Same Democrats”? Peter King is a republican.
GERALD – Yes we need these tunnels. I agree 100% we need these tunnels. I agree 100% we need federal funding. I’m not to be confused with other posters (below) who say otherwise.
The Congressional and Senate delegations from New York and New Jersey are the bottom of the cesspool. They make California look good. The mayor of New York is an out-and-out Communist. The Governor of New York, supposedly a Catholic, thinks that abortion .00001 seconds before natural birth is a thing to be “celebrated”.
When New York and New Jersey clean up their act we can talk about federal funding for these tunnels. Until then, let them collapse.
Andrew Chandler and Robert McGuire…are you aware that over 1/3 of the United States GDP is dependent on the New York/New Jersey region..do you not recall how much money our economy lost for just the 3 days that air travel was shut down for only 3 days after 9/11? The same result would happen should either of those tunnels collapse, and it would actually be a far larger impact since the air travel shutdown was nationwide and there aren’t flights between NJ and NY…so before you comment next time learn some facts and think.
The contingency plan is and should be to just fund and build the new tunnels already and then immediately rehab the old tunnels. The Hudson River tunnels are vital to our entire country’s prosperity. The money is there. Just roll back some of the recent tax cuts.