According to witnesses on site, Florida East Coast office car No. 90, the ornate 1898 Jackson & Sharp-built private car of railroad magnate Henry M. Flagler, left the site minutes before a court-ordered eviction deadline for the museum. A Burlington Route car, Silver Salon, also departed shortly before the deadline. Anything left on site, with the exception of privately-owned equipment to be moved later, goes to the city of Noblesville, which is not apparently in control of the Forest Park museum site.
A report published on the Facebook group Ahead of the Torch with direct references to scrapping said that the only remaining ITM rolling stock left on site was a Pennsylvania Railroad hopper car and a New York Central baggage car. Earlier this week an Atlantic Coast Line lightweight passenger car was scrapped on site, and last week a Milwaukee Road SW1 also met a similar fate. On the positive side, numerous pieces were sold to other preservation groups, and others transferred elsewhere for safekeeping, including the jewel of the collection, Nickel Plate Road 2-8-2 No. 587, now in Kentucky. Milwaukee Road F-units, which gained fame on the point of FairTrain operations in the 1980s, reportedly were sold and awaiting transport.
More on this story today as more details emerge.
It seems that the city of Noblesville doesn’t live up to its name.
As a long time visitor and train enthusiast as well as at one time being hired by ITM to do an inspection of grade crossing signals I can say I have more than a passing interest in this situation. I volunteered for two Sundays recently to help in any way I could. I know a couple of the volunteers from working for Central Railroad which is about an hour north of Nobelsville. I dont know all the details but from what I have gathered from what I have read and seen and from talking with other volunteers that the powers that be in local government saw this as an opportunity to get ITM off the tracks running south out of Nobelsville so the tracks cam be removed and they can put in a walking trail. The rail line between Indianapolis and Tipton is owned the local governing bodies and managed by the Hoosier Port Authority. The museum in Forest Park is a separate property that has a connection to the rail line. My understanding is a group of volunteers (7) went to the Port Authority and filed a complaint. This led to the cancellation of the Fair Train about a week before it was to run. I know of no effort by the Port Authority to have a professional inspection done before the running of the Fair Train or to try to have repairs made if needed. Later an outside party did an inspection. I have never seen the inspection but have heard differing opinions on it. The FRA also did an inspection and I believe it found no major issues with the track. The port authority then filed with STB to have the section from Nobelsville south be rail banked. ITM fought this with STB and just recently STB ruled in favor of port authority. Then, the lease on the property ITM was on was up and ITM was told to leave. ITM went to court to ask for a decent amount of time to move their property. They asked for a year and a half. The court ordered them out in two weeks. Also, ITM was not allowed to use the rail line to move any of their equipment off the property. So everything had to be moved by truck. When the steam engine was being removed the local police stopped them from leaving the museum even though the mover had the proper permits. ITM had to call the state police to get the local authorities to let ITM move the equipment. The court order states all ITM property still on site after the deadline becomes property of the city of Nobelsville. ITM will be moving to the City of Logansport which is a little over an hour north of Nobelsville. It looks ike the city of Logansport is happy to have ITM move there. Also the city of Kokomo will be involved with ITM as well. I could go on but this gets things a little more detailed. If anyone sees any errors in this feel free to speak up. I dont pretend to be an expert on everything going on with ITM.
I had the opportunity to get a cab ride there a few years ago. https://youtu.be/ClwNuB73RM8
I visited the Flagler house and museum in Palm Beach, FLorida. There is a Flagler private car on display at this location also. Are they identical? Or is one older than the other?
This entire episode reminds me of the Dick Jensen tragedy.
Arrived this morning a few minutes before 10:30 to see the Flagler car sitting under the trees on the access road out of the park awaiting the semi-driver and pilot car. Took some pictures and waited. Soon the semi-driver got there with his escort. The driver seemed a bit surprised when I told him that he would hauling one of the most important and valuable pieces in railroad history. Apparently, his first destination is a short ride to a holding yard in Westfield,and then it’s on to Monon, IN,–which is a little surprising since Florida seemed more logical. Much more rolling stock awaited their fate behind me within the locked gates of the museum. A very sad end—-
Noblesville,Indiana, Another city, to be added to my list of cities that have NO REASON to visit!!!
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Zach Pumphery: Personally attacking others you don’t agree with, ESPECIALLY on a forum like this, will get you nowhere in life. You are pretty ignorant yourself. You don’t know me, SO LAY OFF! I happen to have several good friends in the Baltimore, Maryland area (where I live) who are law enforcement officers. One of my best friends is a Baltimore County Police officer. He would definitely think my sarcastic joke about giving the finger was funny, because he is super chill and laid back, unlike yourself. We are still grieving the loss of BCoPD Officer Amy Caprio here in the community I live in. She died doing her duties just a couple neighborhoods over from where I live. I am also working on getting into law enforcement myself someday. I happen to have great respect for them generally speaking, but as you could tell, I was specifically targeting Noblesville-area cops AS A JOKE! Yes, you stated the OBVIOUS: “They are there to do their job”… DUH!!!
there is much more to the story but unfortunately everything has changed permanently. I have read an Indiana State document that suggests some of the contaminates were sourced to property own by the city of Noblesville. This is probably the a one of the saddest moments in preservation history. Best regards
Are you serious Schultz? What good possibly comes in giving law enforcement officers the finger, especially when they “aren’t looking”. Do you really think they believe their time is best spent shooing preservationists out of a railroad museum? No, moron. They’re present because it’s their job, and in this case they have no say in this matter. Do you really think your average Noblesville cop is OK with what’s going on? What an ignorant ass comment.
To just about everyone commenting:
This entire situation is incredibly complex. The ITM is as much, if not far more, to blame for the sorry state of affairs they found themselves in as the City, much like the rental tenants that live in a state of denial until the Sheriff comes pounding on the door to evict them.
By contrast, the parties working to acquire and evacuate equipment from the carnage lest it get scrapped or put on the auction block have been professional, courteous, serious, and level-headed in the middle of a chaotic scene. I would say that copping the attitude that induces flipping digits at people, or calling them names, is exactly how a place like ITM would find itself in this quandary to begin with.
And railfans repeatedly suggesting such malarkey are part of the entire reason why so few in historic preservation take rail preservation seriously in the first place, and regard it as “playing with trains” instead.
While I’m no judge, and don’t know all the “history” of this, I find it strange that when (if?) people are doing all they possibly can to remove equipment/property, that any reasonable judge could consider it abandoned. If someone wants their property, and given a short time to remove it, and doesn’t have the resources to do so, they should have more time. Just my .02 worth
I can say that the the FEC 90 car was one of the finest private cars ever made. However as someone who had the privilege of spending the night in Henry Flagler’s bed in the wintertime let me just say that it was definitely a car for southern climates. A little backstory is that I was helping swedge the boiler tubes for NKP 587 and bring them back to Noblesville a few years ago. Long story short I ended up staying the night so they could be unloaded the next day. Even with a space heater the car has no insulation so it was a quite cold night. Still if you get a chance to see the car. It won’t be the same, but then knowing that the chances of 587 running again are slim as well is sad too. Oh well the museum board of directors brought all this on themselves and have no one else to blame. If the younger generation of volunteers had been able to remake the organization it probably would still be there, but now it is is the ash bin of history.
You are SO RIGHT, Scott Ferry! I sincerely hope that someone on ITM’s staff, the KSHC group, or one of those truckers who had to stressfully help haul all this crap out of there at the last minute turned back and gave some of those law enforcement officers a GIANT middle finger when they weren’t looking. It would also be music to my ears if I learned they had turned back and “just for the heck of it” gave the entire City of Noblesville another “whopper” of a middle finger and shouted some four-letter words at the government buildings as they drove by.
“police moved in to secure the property” Seriously?? Sounds like the City of Noblesville has really jumped the shark.
There is an article on the RTV6 website (Indianapolis) citing “improper storage of hazardous chemicals, leaking barrels, and the like. Due to the abrupt nature of the move I am certain the backstory here is considerably more detailed, but apparently the museum has been the subject of complaints for some time.
These things are generally handled less destructively. On the evidence the museum managed to somehow run afoul of the local governing power structure…how and why, I cannot say.
The above remarks are general in nature and do not form the basis for an attorney/client relationship. They do not constitute legal advice. I am not your attorney. Find your own damn lawyer.
Why did the city evict them? And can the museum sue?
I have the impression that Noblesville is ignoble.