SALT LAKE CITY — Swiss manufacturer Stadler has signed a contract with the San Bernardino County (Calif.) Transportation Authority to build the first hydrogen-powered trains for use in the United States.
The agreement announced Thursday will build a hydrogen-powered version of its FLIRT trainset to run on a 9-mile route to connect Redlands, Calif., to the Metrolink station in San Bernardino. It includes an option for four more trainsets.
“Implementing innovative solutions like this first-of-its-kind passenger train is an excellent example of how we are demonstrating our commitment to the next generation in San Bernardino County,” transportation authority president Darcy McNaboe said in a press release.
The trainset will have two cars with a power pack in between, holding the fuel cells and hydrogen tanks. It is projected to have seats for 108 plus standing room, and will have a top speed of 79 mph. Plans are for it to enter service in 2024.
“Stadler is committed to designing and building green technology for the transportation industry,” Martin Ritter, CEO of Stadler USA Inc., said in the release. “We are delighted that SBCTA shares our enthusiasm for this goal.”
Stadler opened a manufacturing plant in Salt Lake City earlier this year.
French manufacturer Alstom introduced the first hydrogen-powered trainset in 2016 [see “Alstom unveils hydrogen-powered train at InnoTrans,” Trains News Wire, Sept. 20, 2016]. The first of those trains began operating in commercial service in Germany in 2018.
Anna Harding wrote: “The attraction of hydrogen as a fuel is that since there is no carbon involved, it does not (directly) contribute to the greenhouse gas problem.”
Except to the extent that the primary product of hydrogen combustion is water vapor – a significant greenhouse gas.
Troy: note I said “contributes” not “causes”.
The energy density of hydrogen is even less than natural gas. The size of the “tender” will be much bigger for any locomotive. Another consideration is it is nearly impossible to create an impervious storage vessel for hydrogen. So it will be trailing a very flammable vapor trail everywhere it goes.
A representative from the San Bernardino County Transportation Authority made a presentation on this to the RailPac meeting in September in Fullerton.
Mister Kayganich:
Not my experience, but you could easily be correct. If so I sit corrected.
AH
Mister Landey:
Do not directly equate electricity with fossil fuels. There are many other ways to generate electricity, including but not limited to wind; direct photovoltaic conversion; geothermal; hydroelectric; nuclear; thermoelectric and thermionic.
You claim to hold or once have held a Professional Engineer licence. You know or should know these things.
On the other hand, hydrogen vehicle fuel technology does move the problem upstream. While the engine in the vehicle is a prime mover, it does depend for its fuel on an infrastructure to manufacture that fuel. That infrastructure can be carbon clean or carbon generating, I naturally would prefer that it be carbon clean but, like Ugarti, who am I to have an opinion?
The above comments are genetic in nature and do not form the basis for an attorney/client relationship. They do not constitute legal advice. I am not your attorney. I am the (hck!)trician and your loss is my gain.
ANNA – The key to your thought is the word “electrolysis”. As in electricity. Which comes from fossil fuels.
Just add one part oxygen to two parts hydrogen and voila all washed up.
Mister Landey:
Hydrogen – in the form of hydrogen gas – is not a fossil fuel. It is made generally by electrolysis from water, although there are other (chemical) ways of obtaining it. The attraction of hydrogen as a fuel is that since there is no carbon involved, it does not (directly) contribute to the greenhouse gas problem.
The above comments are genetic in nature and do not form the basis for an attorney/client relationship. They do not constitute legal advice. I am not your attorney. It’s a gas gas gas.
“Anna Harding
Mister Landey:
Hydrogen – in the form of hydrogen gas – is not a fossil fuel. It is made generally by electrolysis from water, although there are other (chemical) ways of obtaining it. The attraction of hydrogen as a fuel is that since there is no carbon involved, it does not (directly) contribute to the greenhouse gas problem.”
Incorrect Anna.. Most hydrogen is produced from hydrocarbons using steam reforming or methane extracted from coal gas. Hydrogen by electrolysis constitutes less than 1% of hydrogen production due to cost..
California has virtually outlawed fossil hydrogen except when it mandates fossil hydrogen.
Another Pie in the Sky dream !
Mister Staten:
It is not zero emissions but water vapour is considered to be far more benign than either methane or carbon dioxide. You won'[t get a Second Law chemically powered heat engine that is zero emissions.
The above comments are genetic in nature and do not form the basis for an attorney/client relationship. They do not constitute legal advice. I am not your attorney. Here we go round the potential well, the potential well, the potential well. Here we go round the potential well so early in the morning.
While water vapor is a green house gas it does not cause global warming, here is a nice write up that explains in better than I could.
https://www.yaleclimateconnections.org/2008/02/common-climate-misconceptions-the-water-vapor-feedback-2/
Now I have no idea if a hydrogen powered commuter rail train set is a good idea or not.
Anna,
Sorry to burst your bubble, but water vapor (the exhaust from a hydrogen powered vehicle) is still considered a green-house gas. So yes, this will contribute to global warning.
It’s actually not. Solar and wind power has dropped so much in cost that it’s one of the cheapest ways to make electricity now. That’s why thermal coal production is dropping so quickly and coal power plants are closing all over the country.
As for being pie in the sky. Hydrogen powered trains are currently running in Germany in revenue service.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/17/germany-launches-worlds-first-hydrogen-powered-train
Wouldn’t it be simpler and cheaper to put giant wind-up spring motors in these things? Yes, I’m kidding but making hydrogen from non-fossil electricity is pretty durned expensive. If I’m wrong about that someone please tell me. Why not use natural gas/electric hybrid power? Wabtech and BNSF think that has some merit.
As I understand, a battery source of electrons is used to break the hydrogen atoms off the oxygen atom. The battery has to be charged up so where is that energy obtained?