California has been forced to cancel the massive bullet train project after having spent and wasted many billions of dollars. They owe the Federal Government three and a half billion dollars. We want that money back now. Whole project is a “green” disaster!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 14, 2019
Fake news. We’re building high-speed rail, connecting the Central Valley and beyond.
This is CA’s money, allocated by Congress for this project. We’re not giving it back.
The train is leaving the station — better get on board!
(Also, desperately searching for some wall $$??) https://t.co/9hxEfEX8Vm
— Gavin Newsom (@GavinNewsom) February 14, 2019
In engaging Newsom on the matter, the President tipped his hand on where he places high speed rail on a list of infrastructure priorities. This follows a statement last year by U.S. Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao that “there is no deal” for the federal government to supply half of the cost of building new rail tunnels under the Hudson River linking Penn Station with New Jersey.
Meanwhile, Midwest High Speed Rail Association Executive Director Rick Harnish contends that Newsom’s revisions are valid. He notes they are consistent with the California High Speed Rail Association’s original plan to make the Central Valley segment a 200 mph test bed, but only as long as the tracks now being built host electrified trainsets capable of those speeds.
“They did the right thing by starting in the Central Valley,” Harnish tells Trains News Wire. But to pave the way for future expansion to Los Angeles and San Francisco, as Newsom claims, “acquiring high-speed trainsets and demonstrating their capabilities is absolutely essential in getting the political support to move forward,” Harnish says.
He also points out that, until Tuesday, the agency had only planned to first operate on a 116-mile Bakersfield-Madera portion, mainly because the proposed route north of that point would head west through the mountains to the coast. Completing a full 160 miles to Merced, Harnish says, “creates a hub that connects with an already-funded Altamont Commuter Express expansion from Stockton, Calif., with the potential of utilizing conventional service on an upgraded ex-Western Pacific route across Altamont Pass currently hosting ACE rush hour trains between Stockton and San Jose.”
Harnish says terms of the federal grant only dictate that speeds of the new trackage be at least capable of 125 mph, so California has a pivotal decision to make. But the original plan was to entice competing manufacturers into bidding on the statewide project. That could still happen, he argues, because Siemens, Talgo, Stadler, and Alstom (now building Avelia Liberty trainsets for Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor) all have “off the shelf” equipment that complies with newly-revised Federal Railroad Administration crashworthiness standards.
Drawing an international parallel with a country that has prioritized high speed rail investment for nearly 40 years, Harnish notes that the main spine of the first French TGV system, opened in the early 1980s, was no more than 120 miles long. “The first segment ran between the suburbs of Paris and the suburbs of Lyon,” he says, “and look what happened after that.”
Politicians proposing high speed rail or any other major projects should know that most of us would be arrested for obtaining money under false pretenses were we to do the same.
I usually read the week’s news and comments on Saturday night, but rarely post anything.
Transportation should NOT be a political issue! Everyone needs to “move about the country”. I wish the federal government would not favor one mode (with greater subsidies) over another. I will defer my ideas to “level the playing field between the various modes for another day.
Since I live in California, I can provide you inside information what was (and I assume still is) scheduled to happen once the 119 miles, double tracked, fully grade separated initial operating segment is completed. Amtrak will operate some of San Joaquin trains over the segment. The new Siemens Charger locomotives are cable of operating at 125 mph, Connections to UP near Merced (for transfers to ACE) and back to BNSF’s right-of-way somewhere between Merced and Madera in the north; and back to BNSF somewhere NW of Bakersfield in the south. This alignment will miss stops in Waso and Corcoran (between Bakersfield and Hanford). The new alignment will have stations in Hanford, Fresno and Madera; all in locations west of their existing Amtrak stations on the BNSF. I have read that the running time over the 119 miles, with two fewer stops will be about 20 minutes less. The sad part is that this new duplicate, parallel alignment wastes all the improvements CA has paid to Santa Fe and BNSF to double track portions of its line over the past 30 years.
You may find more information from Noel Braymer’s report from the Rail Pac/RPA Joint Conference last September 26 in Sacramento. https://ntbraymer.wordpress.com/2018/09/ You will find many charts, maps and diagrams from CA’s 2040 Rail Plan.
Tim, take a flying leap & shove it
Charles don’t pay any attention to Mr. Flaherty, he’s obviously a liberal and those people cannot handle any opinion that doesn’t agree with their own. I cannot remember any time that either you or I, or just about anyone on this forum said anything racial. A couple of posters way back but we haven’t heard from them in awhile.
Mr. Flaherty is a railfan who supports Amtrak. i think you support Amtrak too only in a more appropriate form. I don’t support them as they are currently structured. I use Amtrak rather frequently but mostly in the NEC which I find to be the best way to travel between Boston and DC. I have no use for the long distance trains and I’m not afraid to admit it. If there are railfans who find that offensive I feel sorry for them for not being able to handle other people’s opinion.
In regards to politics, in this day and age when government sticks it’s ugly face into almost all aspects of our lives it is virtually impossible to avoid mentioning politics in any kind of meaningful discussion.
All that being said, I have no intention of apologizing for the way I feel or what I say in this forum or any other. Until the liberal haters fully take over our lives then this is still a free country. Many people on this forum and a whole lot of others who aren’t fought and in some cases made the supreme sacrifice to defend those freedoms including the freedom of speech. I continue to thank these men and women by expressing myself in a manner I feel appropriate without regard to those who find my opinions offensive.
Regards to you all,
Robert McGuire
I just have to shake my head every time someone starts comparing the USA to countries in Europe who are so very much smaller in land area to us with populations that are highly more compact per square mile than the USA. Its like comparing apples to oranges.
Maybe some day there will be a successful high speed rail operation in the USA serving a rather short distance (by USA standards) but having it all over the country as some want is never going to happen.
Good idea Eric. But they only talk seldom do.
Let the rich actors chip in, hell they won’t miss the money.
The juvenalia below is the good reason the thousands of Trains subscribers who can access Newswire choose not to.
Many of y’all are getting distracted by political and racial tensions, when in realty, these have zero, nothing to do with the fact that our country is in sad shape (infrastructure) and lacks a true high speed rail system. We should be embarrassed. I am embarrassed, especially when I travel around France, Spain, Germany and even to London via high speed rail. Those systems and every train I was on was well populated. Lots of locals doing their business and lots of tourists like me. I am embarrassed when I am stuck in traffic every day. I realize I am part of the problem when I am in my car, but what other options do I and all the other people have? Not many!!!! This needs to change. Before it’s too late. Our sad state of politics and disposition among our citizens isn’t affording me much faith that we can make it happen. Oh well. Off to the highways I go!
Now, children! Play nice.
The above comments are general in nature and do not form the basis for an attorney/client relationship. They do not constitute legal advice. I am not your attorney. Find your own damn lawyer.
Tim – It’s long since jumped the shark, the Totalitarian Left labeling any contrary opinion as “hateful” and “racial”. At least in other cases, the topic was race. Race has never come up on TRAINS-MAG commentaries.
Here’s something I posted earlier this week. I stated that I’ve ridden metros in (long list of cities in USA, three in Canada and one in UK) at all hours of the day and evening, in all neighborhoods, and never felt uncomfortable.
That makes me a racist? My god! What is with your twisted narrow mind? Tim, I think you might need to go for some help.
By the way, Tim, while I’ve posted I’m Ukranian ancestry, you don’t know the race color or ethnicity of my friends and family. By insulting me you have insulted them.
Nor do you know the various neighborhoods I’ve lived or the churches and organizations I’ve been a member of. In all probability I’ve had a hundred times more contact with racial minorities as you have.
Has the CA governor or anyone else suggested what level of service would offered once the Bakersfield – Merced HSR route is ready for operation? Would it just be the same 4 daily Bakersfield – Oakland RTs and the 2 daily Bakersfield – Sacramento RTs that are offered by Amtrak today?
Robert – Great post. As for Tim, he’s proof of what I’ve always believed, the biggest haters and the worst bigots in America are those who (falsely) claim they’re fighting bigotry and hatred. Liberal? No Tim’s a Stalinist. Can’t allow anyone else their right of free speech. Anyone who disagrees with him gets reported to the Forum Monitor.
Tim, if you’re still listening, make my day. Report me to the forum monitor, and report Robert McGuire as well. I know the forum monitor won’t find anything racist or hateful, but make my day and have him try to. Can’t speak for Robert but this is the only forum I currently post on (though I use an alias handle on the Fred Frailey blog). Most newspaper blogs require a Facebook account to comment, something I don’t have.
Tim, you can also do a Google or Bing search for me and see what you find. Go ahead, make my day! My life is an open book. I have nothing to hide.
Am I missing something? I don’t see anything in the latest posts by C. Landrey or R. McGuire that seem to even remotely be “hateful racial off topics politics”. I agree that “10th amendment” issues, while of some relevance to HSR issues, are a little esoteric for a railfan forum (how many of the readers even know what the “10th amendment” says), but, that doesn’t make the discussion in any way “hateful racial” or otherwise improper. Namecalling isn’t helpful, Cool it.
So now California will have a high-speed train from nowhere to nowhere.
Timothy Flaherty
Charles & Robert McGuire
“I have grown very tired reading your hateful racial off-topics politics into a trains forum.
You have been reported for violation the terms and conditions of Trains user agreement..”
?????…….
When have Charles or Robert said anything racial?
Tom:
DITTO!
Charles & Robert McGuire
I have grown very tired reading your hateful racial off-topics politics into a trains forum.
You have been reported for violation the terms and conditions of Trains user agreement..
Cheers,
Timothy – Cities (and counties, towns, townships, school districts, villages) are subsidiaries of the state government and have only the powers the states grant them. For example, the Wisconsin town, county and school district in my area have no standing in the construction or the operation of a state highway, except as granted to them by law.
States are sovereign, subsidiary to the federals only to the extent the constitution or common law grants powers to the federal government such as regulation of interstate railroads. The federals have gained immense powers (for better or for worse) by handing out sums of money with strings attached. Thus the Obama administration’s egregious and disgusting kangaroo courts on college campuses, which aside from being legal atrocities fit for a totalitarian society, are in no way the business of the federal government per the Tenth Amendment.
Over the years the courts have given increased power to the federal government by judicial fiat. The Tenth Amendment is essentially a dead letter, people ignoring the fact that it’s part of the Bill of Rights co-equal to the First and the Fifth Amendments.
That $3.5 billion does not belong to the state of California nor does it belong to President Trump. It was stolen from the American taxpayers by the previous occupant of the White House, Obama, and should be returned to the American taxpayers not the federal government.
In the time that California has struggled to build HSR in the Central Valley — Morocco built and open a 200-mile TGV line between Casablanca and Tangiers.
Charles – I am glad you are for State rights. And hopefully as a Hiawatha rider, hopefully you are for local municipal rights.
As Glenview, Illinois is fighting in court the increase service expansion for the Hiawatha service that you use. You could have more frequent and covenant Hiawatha service, if not for that pesky local rights and the Federal Dollars that would have paid to make your Hiawatha trips better as a rider.
Speaking of States giving money back to the Government, remember when Governor Chris Christie stole the Fed money for the Hudson River Tunnels and ran like a thief across the neighbor’s yard to avoid raising fuel taxes in order to get re-elected? Had it not been for that theft of Federal funds the original Gateway Tunnels would be in service today,
I believe in States rights that do not supersede Federal Law, And also Private Companies rights that should go fund themselves. The PPP model (Public Private Partnership) of funding is a joke. If you study the funding for the Chicago Create project the first P, is getting P on by the second P with no tangible benefits to the first P.
About the 10th amendment, read it again “nor prohibited by it to the states”. There is not much that is not prohibited by the Fed by virtue of 240 years of Supreme Court Rulings. .
As for a real Federal boondoggle that tramples over state and individual property owners rights, it is called “Trump’s Wall”
“Go Eat a Peach” -NY
Cheers
Charles,
The only problem with giving the money back is that it was spent for exactly what it was authorized for…legally there’s no grounds the Fed’s can stand on.
I’m all for States Rights (read the Tenth Amendment in the Bill of Rights). I’m also for states paying their own way. The federal government (which I’m zero advocate of) needs to get its money back. If California won’t pay it back, the federals should sue.
To clarify I’m certainly not opposed to a state-federal partnership for Interstate transportation on sensible projects. After all, I do ride the Hiawatha trains. That being said, this wasn’t a federal-state joint venture. This useless boondoggle was all California’s. Time for a refund.