ALBANY, N.Y. — New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo will announce a new effort to develop high speed rail service in his state as part of his Jan. 8 State of the State address, Cuomo announced Thursday.
In a statement, Cuomo said he will convene a panel of outside experts to “reexamine and rethink strategies to bring high speed rail to New York.” The panel of engineers will reexamine past studies and recommend a new plan for high speed service in the state.
“We’ve been told that bringing this technology to our state is too expensive, too difficult and would take too long,” Cuomo said in the statement. “That’s not an acceptable attitude for New York. When we developed our plan to repair the L Train Tunnel, the team of experts we assembled questioned every assumption and brought new creativity to a seemingly intractable problem. We not only found a way to repair the tunnel without shutting down service, we are doing it ahead of schedule. This kind of outside-the-box thinking will help us determine how we could deliver high speed rail for New York.”
Cuomo blocked original plans to stop service on New York City Transit’s L train between Brooklyn and Manhattan, after engineers recommended an alternative repair method to repair the tunnel damaged by Hurricane Sandy. [See “New York’s L Train construction project to begin April 26,” Trains News Wire, April 19, 2019]
The panel’s goal will be to find a workable way to build a high speed line along the Buffalo-Albany-New York City “Empire Corridor.” The statement notes that most of the state’s population lives near the corridor, but that current rail service averages just 51 mph, “meaning it is often the slowest method available for New Yorkers.”
Because, Mr. Carlton, CSX OWNS that stretch of railroad and pays property taxes on it. They have vehemently stated several times over the last few decades that they are NOT going to share their tracks with any high speed passenger rail initiative!
They could possibly benefit from selling their rights of way currently unoccupied by track and cast off the already reduced tax burden they represent as having had their tracks removed in the late 50s/early 60s. But then, selling all that land to any state high speed rail authority will probably also carry a hefty real estate capital gains tax, so all CSX will be able to say at the far end is that they don’t have to pay taxes on that land anymore. The question is, will that be enough on the black ink side of the ledger to make it worth their while.
Rick Shivik
Conyers, GA
No action, just more studies. Where has the governor been all of these years?
With as much as The Empire State has Studied this subject over the past 40+ years you’d think they’d have gotten an A+ by now!
Consider the fact that CSX will not share their tracks with such technology as moot. They could probably be persuaded to share their quadruple track and former West Shore right of ways as necessary. However, any study should assume that a completely new railroad will have to be built to keep average speeds as high as possible.
If Texas Central works out successfully, perhaps the Ultra Liberal New York State Legislature and the Governor’s Mansion could consider letting completely private interests build out the project.
Whoa! (blink – blink) ….. I must have been dreaming. Could have sworn I saw an Acela II go rocketing through Lyons. ??
Rick Shivik
Conyers, GA
by way of Webster, NY
Well said Clarence Copple…….
The Commonwealth of Virginia has agreed to enter the railway business in a large way the apex of which is the former RF&P. CSX is in a selling mood. NRPC already leases the former NYC from Poughkeepsie to Schenectady. Why not sell all the way from Poughkeepsie to Buffalo?
CLARENCE COPPLE _—- I agree with you that DON OLTMANN totally nailed it. That doesn’t mean that Governor Cuomo has any understanding and it doesn’t change the low opinion many of us have of the guv. I’m free to have a high opinion of DON OLTMANN’s analysis while simultaneously thinking Governor Cuomo is a total creep. Which he is.
Re-reading DON OLTMANN’s post, DON is calling for incrementalism. DON himself used that word — twice. My thoughts exactly. I’m confident there’s plenty of room for incremental improvements in the Empire Corridor, and I would support that. Incrementalism is not what the guv has called for. Guv has called for HSR. Cuomo doesn’t have the money for HSR, and few of us have the years left to see it happen if the money were available.
Let’s not forget that New York State has another pressing need – the Hudson tunnels. Which is not funded either by either the guv or the recently former New Yorker Donald Trump, Democrat or Republican. While the clock is ticking.
I will not comment of the negative, political mud slinging but will say that high speed rail would be a true asset to the economically depressed areas of upstate New York. The caveats mentioned below must be delt with. We can not have another 2nd Ave. fiasco. The point made for an incremental approach with adoption of improvements in short periods of time is an important consideration.
For a time, some 15 or 20years ago, a Sunday afternoon train to Syracuse ran non-stop to Albany. I rode this train on one occasion and stepped off in Albany in 1 hr. and 59 mins. We passed Croton in 33 mins., Poughkeepsie in 1 hr. 8 mins. and in 50 or so mins. arrived in Albany. This was not true high speed rail but it indicates what is possible with reasonable investment. If tracks were altered to be on 25ft. centers, a bypass constructed at Croton-Harmon, higher speeds implemented on the West Side Line in Manhattan with reconfiguring of the interlocking at the Harlem River Bridge, reinstallation of the third main track north of the Bear Mt. Bridge to Poughkeepsie, and with minor straightening of some curves it would leave only Peekskill and Hudson as permanent slower speed areas. Both would be expensive to correct and probably not necessary to achieve a 90 min. running time between these points.
West of Albany, or Hoffman’s to be precise, the right of way accommodated four main tracks. The right of way is there for an additional high speed track so that passenger traffic would not interfere with CSX freight traffic. Heaviest passenger traffic historically has been eastbound to New York in the morning and westbound in the evening. For that reason, one track should suffice, at least initially. One of the freight tracks could be used where passenger trains did meet. There would be installation of this third high speed track only in those areas where tangent track permits high speeds. This would probably be west of Little Falls to East Syracuse, the Fair Grounds west of Syracuse to Lock Berlin, yes named after a lock on the Erie Canal. In this area the bridge over the Seneca River in the Montezuma Swamp, already in need of llreplacement, should be replaced. The 60 mph curves in the area near Newark, N.Y. would either have to be straightened or simply be delt with. The third main could be utilized for high speed running west of these curves through Fairport and East Rochester to the Brighton area east of Rochester. West of Rochester to Buffalo would be all high speed. It was here in the late 19th Century that the famous New York Central engine 999 reached 112mph on the gentle descent from Batavia to Buffalo.
The above should permit a four hour run across upstate New York and with 90 mins south of Albany permit a 5 and 1/2 hour running time between Buffalo and Gotham. This is not TGV but it would be an incremental approach at reasonable cost that would prove attractive as a start. It should be supervised by those familiar with construction of such infrastructure and with strict internal financial controls to avoid another 2nd Ave. fiasco. Upstate New York needs something and this would be a big help.
Bill McDonald
Woodstock, Vt.
It is refreshing to me reading the objective and practical views of Don Oltmann and William McDonald. I have learned to skim over the usual negative cliches and poltical potshots that add virtually zero in terms of understanding of the issues.
If Cuomo is promoting this you just have to know that there is something in it for him. The cost will be outrageous once all the bribes and payoffs are made plus $400/hour union overtime wages etc. New York taxpayers hold onto your wallets. You know who is coming to empty them once again.
Actually, if this were to be done in a cost effective manner and in a reasonable time frame it would be a good idea but given the current political climate in New York I’m not holding my breath.
Living in upstate New York, I have tremendous confidence in our fearless Governor and his pursuit of Truth, Justice, and the American Way. After all, it was only last week that he vetoed a bill that was passed almost unanimously by both houses of the New York legislature, allowing Federal judges to perform weddings here in the Empire State. His reason was that some of said Federal judges had been appointed by Donald Trump. Incidentally, you can be married by a pig farmer in NY, so long as he is a Town Justice (lots of them – just win a local election). No legal training or law degree required. Excelsior!
Yes I know NIMBY BANANA world.
My thoughts, what about using the, now mostly abandoned, Harlem line to Chatham for a high speed rail line? From Albany to Buffalo One could make the New York Central line 4 tracks again.
If the objective is New York City to Albany no intermediate stops? The terrain is no worse than what the Germans had to deal with building the ICE network. It’s 20 miles from Chatham to Rensselaer (IIRC). I should have said thru Chatham, NY to Rensselaer. Yes low population, fewer neighbors to complain.
Well, define “High Speed Rail”. That was the problem in Wisconsin. A proposed train that would have been able to outrun a bicycle was falsely promoted as “High Speed Rail”. This was, arguably, the major reason the project was killed.
So what exactly does the guv have in mind? Haven’t we passed the point where a tenth-rate governor can open his mouth and people say, “Great Idea!”.
It’s been about 12 years since Wisconsin’s failed “HSR” proposal. Haven’t we learned, yet, that a politician can’t pass off any/ everty intercity rail proposal as “High Speed”????
IAN – Really? The Chatham Line? Up the Taconic Mountains to the scenic middle of nowhere? High speed would be sixty if you pour in billions plus lots of luck. The lightly populated border area between Mass and New York State is some of the best scenery anywhere. But it HSR? You have neither the population nor the terrain.
BTW Ian, how do you propose to get west from Chatham? Did you know that I-90 (the Berkshire Thruway and the Mass Pike) is a mountain road?
It took New York sixty years to build a mile of the Second Avenue Subway. I’d not stand on one leg for any project that would shave a quarter hour off New York to Buffalo.
If you are going to do it right keep CSX out of it. To build true high speed rail you need a dedicated right of way with as few curves as possible. Just remember Gov. Cuomo will probably get this passed in the middle of the night and name it after his father just like the Tappan Zee bridge.
The politically motivated gov. Cuomo swings at pitches and occasionally connects, eg. the MTA L line intervention…or misses, eg. the new Tappan Zee bridge built again at the Hudson’s widest spot without provision for rail (and not retaining the old spans for rail or trail). Nevertheless, as with Keystone service, perhaps even Milw-Madison or Milw-Racine-Kenosha, there is inevitability to the “Empire Corridor.”
And as all know, hi-speed rail is a phrase devoid of meaning, like freeway or expressway.
For the “to do” list:
1. Get someone from CSX in the room.
2. Figure out an incremental path from current state to final.
3. Fund the incremental plan incrementally with the biggest “bang for the buck” items going first.
4. Talk to places that developed HSR on the back of conventional rail (Germany, France, England, etc.)
For the “things to avoid list”
1. Don’t do the whole study and then throw it at CSX.
2. Don’t have a single “all new – everywhere” plan from the start.
3. Don’t have a plan with a long, long timeline before anything turns a wheel.