PARIS – France has banned domestic short-haul flights where rail alternatives exist to cut carbon emissions, BBC News reported. The law comes into effect two years after French lawmakers had voted to end airline routes where the same journey could be made by train in under two-and-a-half hours. France’s Citizens’ Convention on Climate, which was created by President Emmanuel Macron in 2019 and included 150 members of the public, had proposed scrapping plane journeys where train journeys of under four hours existed. It was reduced to two-and-a-half hours after objections from some regions, as well as the airline Air France-KLM.
The ban all but rules out air travel between Paris and cities including Nantes, Lyon and Bordeaux, while connecting flights are unaffected.
The government had faced calls to introduce even stricter rules. French consumer group UFC-Que Choisir had earlier called on lawmakers to retain the four-hour limit. “On average, the plane emits 77 times more CO2 per passenger than the train on these routes, even though the train is cheaper and the time lost is limited to 40 minutes,” the group said. It also called for “safeguards that French national railway SNCF will not seize the opportunity to artificially inflate its prices or degrade the quality of rail service,” BBC reported.
How many routes are actually effected?
I can not think of a single one.
Flights between Paris Orly and Nantes, Bordeaux or Rennes where given up years ago.
There are still flights between Lyon and Marseille but probably mostly for connecting passengers.
It is a very different story if someone wants to travel cross country. As an example, SNCF gave up direct rail service between Lyon and Bordeaux years ago. Center of the TGV network is Paris. Taking a train between the two cities takes around 6 hours (via Paris). The alternative is a 5 hour drive or an Easyjet flight of just one hour.
The New Haven Railroad in its golden days was one of the premier railroads i the Northeast and with its lineup of name trains like the The Merchants Special and the Bankers Limited. But like most railroads, the New Haven went into rapid decline in the 1960s and became as an unwanted stepchild of the rail industry. The merger of the New York Central and Pennsylvannia Railroads in 1969 had one condition attached to it that the newly formed Penn Central Railroad had to take in the New Haven Railroad which didn’t help either railroad but only dragged both down into further financial ruin and decay. Speaking of the New Haven Railroad, they also had a very contrroversial and somewhat colorful president as their president in Patrick McGuiness who was someone that you hated or loved. He didsome good things but also some shady dealings and questionable business practices which landed him a jail sentence. One thing he is noted for was the colorful and unique paint scheme that he applied to the New Haven’s fleet of locomotives the black, orange and white paint scheme with the bold NH letters, a great paint scheme and design and today is being carried on by some of Metro North’s locomotives as a Heritage design. Also called the McGuiness inspired paint scheme and one of the most popular and well liked designs in the railfan community
Joseph C. Markfelder
Good history, but a year off on the dates. Penn Central Merger was Feb 1, 1968, on condition of absorbing New Haven January 1, 1969.
A bit of history here. Years ago when the old Eastern Airlines ran shuttle flights between New York and Boston and New York and Washington D.C whenever those shuttle flights were either delayed or canceled then the train between those cities was packed with those travellers needing to get to their destinations. This was in the days before Amtrak and aptly named Northeast Corridor. Both the Pennsylvannia Railroad and then Penn Central and the New Haven ran the trains. That was the only time when one could say that the trains were crowed with those stranded airline travellers. People who would never ride or use the railroad but only travel by plane had to use the train because Eastern Airlines could not accomodate them due to either cancellations due to issues with weather or the plane itself. As I always mention in the posts I write, there is a need for ALL forms of transportation and and they all play their part and are an important in the grand scheme and plan of moving the poulation A country that just depends on one form of transportation to get around will find itself in big trouble when that one form runs into all sorts of issues Be it weather, equipment or personel shortages or any number of other problems. Planes can;t handle the whole load just as railroads cant handle the whole load and our nation’s highways are already overcrowded, saturated and most in need of repairs and modernization nd really woefully unable to handle any more traffic than what they are being asked to carry
Joseph C. Markfelder
When I started college in 1964 in NYC, taking the New Haven Railroad was as natural as can be. Not only was I a railfan (then and now) but people travelled by train in those days. Parents would drive me to Route 128 Station. The train would arrive either at Penn or Grand Central. Then I’d hop the subway to campus. Why do otherwise? It was the obvious way to travel, the trains being direct and frequent.
Two years later, I’d had it with the New Haven and was flying the Eastern Air Shuttle. Despite the considerable hassle of Logan at the home end and LaGuardia at the college end. (I don’t even remember how I got from LaGuardia to northern Manhattan — probably some combination of one bus and two subways.) That was 1966; now it’s 2023 and 183 flights later. How do I choose between modes? What’s best for me.
France? I vaguely recall an article in TRAINS many years back, probably by the late George Drury. Making a list of over-rated trains, he included everything SNCF except the TGV.
While I’m at it, why did George Drury’s death occur with so little comment? I loved his stuff and aways wanted to meet him. Both of us Massachusetts natives. His work place and my home both in Town of Brookfield, Waukesha County Wisconsin.
The PRR NY-Phila-Wash service was well-patronized; some trains had five Parlor Cars and multiple coaches. The P70fbR and P70R coaches with walkover seats were comfortable and clean.
Then came both the austerity of the 1960’s and conditions deteriorated. This was Eastern’s opportunity to introduce the Shuttle from both La Guardia and Newark to DCA. Eastern offered to run a second section of a Shuttle flight if the schedulled flight (Boeing 727 usually) were sold out. Second sections were usually piston L-1049 Constellations or turboprop Electras.
The Metroliners arrived in 1969 to Penn Central but when Amtrak put them in hourly service they took the shuttle business away from Eastern. They weren’t much faster than the conventional trains (110 vs 90 mph) but the lights, heat and A/C all worked and you could see through the windows. And you didn’t have to ride a bus across a river to get to the airport.
Now Amtrak has a lock on NY-Wash business travel. It never made sense to fly from Phila to NY or Wash unless you were making airline connections.
Philip — I don’t remember the 727’s. Possibly I just forgot or they weren’t used on the Boston end. The Boston-LGA or Boston-Newark Eastern Air Shuttle was Super Constellations, (Super C and Super G), obviously designed for longer hauls. Early models of the DC-9 took over from the Connies.
American and Northeast both jumped in to compete with Eastern. American flew “400 Astrojets”, meaning BAC-111-400, or the Electra. (All this is from memory.) Northeast flew DC-9 “Yellowbrids” in Northeast’s new 1960’s livery.
Two memories from that era: (1) walking out on the LGA tarmac to bid goodbye to a girlfriend flying back to Boston, and (2) walking out onto the EWR tarmac strictly for airplane-fanning fun, nothing to do with holding a ticket or wanting to fly. A third, more recent, memory is my wife laughing at the movie “The Verdict” where Paul Newman’s character just walked onto the Eastern Air Shuttle, no security or nothing like that. And sitting in what appeared to be a first class lounge. Yeah, right. Epect a First Class lounge these days on anything less than a flight to Dubai or Singapore.
Today, regional jets fly flights up to say 2,000 miles. Back then, mainline jets, pistons, or turboprops flew Boston to LGA/ EWR, or LGA/EWR to DCA.
Hello Charles Landey, I enjoyed your nostalgic post. I too commuted to Manhatten’s RCA Institute of Electronics in the mid 60s traveling most days on the 8th Ave Express from the G.W. Bridge down to 14th St, with car and/or bus connections to Fort Lee, NJ, and watching out the front windows of those A-Train 8th Ave Expresses seeing all those signal color lights. Then in the later 60s, I hired on with the E-L Rwy’s police dept. in Hoboken, NJ for a 20 month stint before transferring to E-L’s telecom dept., sometimes, (work shift allowing), commuting to Hoboken on the NJ-NY RR E-L subsidiary (pre NJT), (with my E-L Rwy free pass which I still possess as a keep-sake), riding in those old Stillwell commuter coaches where you could count the cross ties through the toilet bowls, and being pulled by vintage ALCO RS-2 diesels. A time or two, I even rode in the cab being shaken somewhat side to side from the bolted rails. And those RS2s were MUed in strings of 6 or more working freights from Croxton Yard to Port Jervis, NY on weekends. And I recall a few years later, the E-L purchased surplus stainless steel Santa Fe Pullman passenger coaches for their commuter fleet, being pulled by a pair of back-to-back EMD E8s. Anyway, your NH commuter trip was luxurious compared to my wild west Stillwell coach experience, lol. BTW, I vaguely recall when the NH RR interchanged with the EL Rwy, and also the L&HR RR, at or near Maybrook, NY. via the Poughkeepsie Hudson River bridge.
of course we can talk about geography The United States is a big country more than twice the size of France. But the point here is that other nations do a great job of managing their transportation options and systems. Here in America, we do a very poor job of managing and operating our transportation systems and that includes our airlines. When things are running on time and be managed the right way GREAT! As I stated in my post naturally the airline will get you there fas But the fun starts once you land at the airport The 5 hour flight from New York to LA is great but if you final destrination is somewhere in the city or the business district you have to find that final ride to that spot No local rail service or bus service and having to wait until a local taxi shows up or you wait for the Uber or lyft that you ordered show up It can take anywhere from an hour or more till you to that final destination. Here in Orlando, there is no local transit services such as rail or bus service from OIA to downtown Orlando. The Lynx bus service shuts down after 10pm and that includes the only local bus line running from downtown Orlando to the airport. Such is the case in many cities that have a great airport with plenty of flights but no local transit services connecting the city to the airport. Maybe some day science will create a flying machine that drop off or land directly in the city and provide that direct link to your final destination New York City once had direct helicopter service from the heliport on top of the formerly named Pan Am Building in midtown Manhattan to all three metropolitian airports but that service was discontinued after a fatal crash on top of the building with the wreckage plunging into the street below killing one person and serious injury to others. Until transportation planners and officials can develop and build reliable local transit conections from the downtown area or the inner city to the airport, all the time gained by flying to your destination is lost waiting or trying to find that final link to your final destination
Joseph C. Markfelder
Last year when the airlines were melting down daily, I read an article about a family that had a connecting flight in Charlotte going home to Raleigh. The flight kept getting delayed and eventually was cancelled. The family got a ride to the train station and took the train to Raleigh. American Airlines reimbursed them the Charlotte – Raleigh portion of the airfare. They got back more than they spent on train fare.
That made me wonder why American Airlines and NC don’t work together and make some of those connecting flights a ride on the Piedmont. A dedicated bus between airport and train is all it would take. And American could offer through ticketing to all the stations en route, expanding their services. It’s not rocket science.
It won’t happen becuase Amtrak wants dibs in the airport luggage sort facility to accomodate something like this.
This is one of many issues of why Amtrak refused to occupy a station purpose built for them at Miami airport. They didn’t want just a simple ticket office, they want full bore access inside the terminal with luggage transfer and access rights.
The host airlines don’t like that because fees paid by *their* customers paid for that terminal to be built and don’t like non-air interlopers.
Case in point. When Brightline and OIA (Orlando) announced a new south terminal to encompass a train station the biggest objector was, Southwest Airlines. Brightline wasn’t even asking for luggage transfer rights, just a terminal. Southwest complaint was the terminal was not needed and was going to force OIA to raise their landing fees to cover the cost, a cost covered by their customers, not Brightline’s.
In reality, Brightline does have to cover their terminal costs in their tickets, but the point was made. Airlines don’t want intercity passenger rail in their terminals.
The U.S. does not have that kind of rail infrastructure. A few trains a day between city pairs is not nearly enough to accomplish this here.
Once again, it is a European nation that knows the value and effectiivness of rail travel and puts it to good use. They don’t call Europe the Old World for nothing. We Americans like to think that we know it all and superior to all other nations and be futuristic with dependence on air travel and the highways only but most if not all of Europe knows that the train is the most direct way between cities and also can carry far more more people on a single trip than any airplane or adding more cars to highways already overcrowded. Plus the train is a great energy saver and France and most of Europe have an excellent rail network powered by electric lines and equipment. As anybody will tell you, the sole reason why people travel by plane is for speed and getting there in a hurry but that is in. Air travel is not comfortable or exactly pleasent and when you fly between local cities, the time you save is wasted getting to and from the airports onboth ends and a majority of airports still do not have access to local rail or bus transit services. For travel between local cities and short distances, the train is the most direct and time saving mode of travel to get there. America has a lot to learn from how Europe runs and manages their rail networks and trains.
Joseph C. Markfelder
That was a great speech for rail, but one musn’t forget that France isn’t nearly the size of the US. Yes, I can get from Paris to Nantes in just over 2 hours by rail, but I can also get from Chicago to New York by air in 2 hours. Paris to Marseille is 4 hours by rail, but I can fly LA to New York in 5 hours.
The US has a significant issue around scale. European rail would have value in the denser population of the northeast and in central and southern California. But as a cross country travel medium in the US, it just doesn’t cut it.
Good move..I can think of a few (subsidized) flight destinations in my state that should get the axe!
I am surprised they didnt just tax it to death, instead of banning it outright. After all France is a full-employment, 32 hour work week, 90 days of vacation society
Please explain what it is that you don’t like about this.
Sounds like someone might be a little jealous.
At one time, Amtrak’s Atlantic City Line served as an airline connection between Philadelphia and Atlantic City. They had through ticketing.
Now it’s NJT’s AC Line and runs from 30th St Station in Philadelphia. You can still take SEPTA’s Airport Line from KPHL to 30th St. and change to NJT there.
NJT’s AC Line goes right by and in sight of the actual AC Airport (KACY) which is 9 miles North of AC proper.
What happens when the (French) SNCF workers go on strike, as they inevitably do from time-to-time?
And yes, good luck to have SNCF to “…not seize the opportunity to artificially inflate its prices or degrade the quality of rail service.” (Scare Bleu!).